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Config Advice 474326

Post Date: 2010-12-31

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Perdika View Drop Down
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Config Advice 474326
    Posted: 31 Dec 2010 at 12:32pm
Just posting my config and follow-up questions regarding cooling.
 

Chassis Model:  Special Deal Hot Seller - Black OPS Assassin

Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core)

Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s) (Model: 131-GT-E767)

System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series

Power Supply: 1000W Digital Storm Certified (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible

Expansion Bay: Hard Drive Hot Swap Bay (EZ-Rack

Hard Drive Set 1:

Operating System 1x (80GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition

Set 1 Raid Options: - No

Hard Drive Set 2:

Multimedia\Data 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (64MB Cache)

Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Player (Play Blu-Ray and Play DVDs

Internet Access: !PROMOTION: Killer 2100 (Optimized for Online Gaming)

Video Card(s): 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1GB (PhysX) (EVGA SuperClocked 01G-P3-1372-TR)

Sound Card:  Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based)

Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 6: Sub-Zero LCS Dual Loop: CPU & Dual SLI/CrossFire Video

Enhancements: - No Thanks

Chassis Mod's: - No Thanks

Noise Reduction: - No Thanks

 

I forgot to ask some questions regarding Stage 6 Cooling.  Here are some thoughts and questions I would appreciate some comment and advice on.

 

-will liquid cooling based systems be quieter in general ?

-poor heat dissipation in computers can compromise component reliability and therefore Stage 6 cooling, or other advanced cooling solutions, will tend to improve component reliability and longevity (excluding OC considerations) ?

-what are the impacts of thermal expansion and how are they different with Stage 6 cooling compared to more conventional air based cooling solutions ?

-is there concern with thermal expansion issues with turning the computer on and off with the sub-zero CPU cooling; going from ambient to 0oC and back to ambient again ?

 

Your advice and help is appreciated, Perdika.

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DST4ME View Drop Down
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Dec 2010 at 2:56pm
please keep all your questions in one thread, this is a nightmare trying to go between your 2 threads to answer your questions.

for your res all you need is a 570 gtx, you can always add one later but with LC system you need to know what you are doing to do that, with air system its very simple.

so LC system:

Ticket Number: 474392

and

air system:

Ticket Number: 474394


look over these 2 and lets see what you like to change.

LC is quiet here if you get custom quiet fans.

remember 90% of your noise comes from the gpu's fan when under load.

LC can help with component life, but even with air you can expect the major parts to last 8 years at least.

there is nothing wrong with turning pc on and off either way.



Edited by DST4ME - 31 Dec 2010 at 2:59pm
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Dec 2010 at 6:20pm
Thanks for your quick response DST4ME.
 
What about trading the 6 core for a 4 core i7 950 and upgrading to a GTX 580 with liquid cooling ? (Ticket = 474446) This would give me the option of going SLI with the 580 in the future.
 
What custom fans do I need for the "LC is quiet if you get custom fans".  Can you suggest a configuration ?
 
I noticed you are recommending the HAF 932 over Silverstone FT02 (Black Ops Assassin) - I liked the dimensions of the Black Ops Assassin, but it seems that you think its inferior from a cooling noise point of view ?
 
You also seemed to imply that a dedicated audio card could be at least deferred - so I guess the difference would not be that much ?
 
Best Regards,
 
Perdika
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Dec 2010 at 6:45pm
My pleasure

the cpu is the brain of your pc, its always the most important, on your budget you can go with the 6core cpu, this can help with manythings, multitasking, running multiple apps, but in gaming it will not make a difference in most cases.

the difference between 570 and 580 is not enough for one to want to go with 580, at 1900 x 1200 for most games the 570 will give you what you want, which is smooth gaming in most games, but if you wan to cover your minimum fps then a single 580 won't do it either, you will need sli 570/580, but you don't need to cover the minium, cause your experience should be smooth gaming with either 570/580, so no point in putting $200 toward something you won't notice much from?

so I think i7 950 and 570 or 970 and 570 is the combo to go with, what you do is get a psu big enough to handle sli, then you can always add a second gpu, but as I mentioned with LC system you should know what you are doing if you plan on adding a second gpu to the loop yourself.

XSPC Radiatiors with Scythe Gentle typhoon 1400rpm or for even less noise the 1100rmp ones,that is the kind of rad/fan combo you want if you want to get a good quiet LC system, you can ask DS for those, it will cost you more tho.

the haf 932 has 3 x 230mm fans and 1 x 140mm fans, haf = high air flow, haf has better airflow, if you want to go with hafx, then it comes with 2 x 200mm fans, 1 x 230mm fan, 1 x 140mm fan and option to add a 4th big fan, a 200mm to the top, so you endup with 2 x 200mm on top, 1 x 230mm on front, 1 x 200mm on side and 1 x 140mm in rear. So which of these 3 cases has the least airflow and which 2 will have the most? but its your money and your case, you get what you like, we just provide info, at the end, its important that you get what you like to get and make yourself happy.

as for audio card, I apologize if it came across that a dedicated card is not important, it is but, it all depends on how important sound quality is to you, if you use headphones and sound quality is particularly very important to you then you want a sound card, if not then the mobo sound is good, now in days they have come a long way. But I'm not sound expert, this is what I have picked up from other members that are into that stuff.
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 11:46am
Thanks again DST4ME.  Its nice to get a bit of a technical education in this forum - for me it might be enough to be dangerous lol.
 
Thanks particularly for the information on the cases - very specific and helpful.
 
I would just like to clarify a few things.
 
For the Black Ops Assassin type case a liquid cooling solution is technically appropriate with the XSPC Radiators and the Scythe Gentle typhoon - costs more but makes it quieter.
 
The Haf 932 is a favoured case for an all air cooled solution - it looks like it is also very customizable.
 
Thanks for the help, Perdika Big%20Smile
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jan 2011 at 12:20pm
My pleasure

for LC you have better options IMO, like the corasir 800d , for LC you want the most room you can get without being cramped. the 800d has 4 more inches in hight, giving lot more room. look at what I stuffed in mine, that would never work in the assassin, it would be so crapped it would be hell working in there.

so for LC I recommend the 800d (hailstrom), for air I recommend the haf 932/942.

you have to match the speed of fan to the rad, all rads are not the same, some rads perform best with high cfm fans and some works best with low cfm fans, since you want quiet, then you want a low cfm fan, to use low cfm fan you want a rad that works best with low cfm fans, such fans are xspc rads, amongst others.
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 10:55am
Thanks DST4ME, this helps.  I checked out your rig and pictures - pretty awesome.. you doing some NASA work on the side ?
 
Here is a revised build with the 800D Corsair case.  I would appreciate any comments anyone might have.  With your help I think I am getting close.
 
I specified the optimized fan and air flow speeds and intend to ask for the XSPC radiators with the 1100RPM Scythe Gentle Typhoon 1100 RPM fans.  I am assuming that this spec will be a reasonable quite machine.  Note my last computer was a dell xps 600 which now has a fried MBO - two big capacitors blew.
 
474995
Specifications:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Black OPS HailStorm Edition
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 950 3.06GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: EVGA X58 SLI 3 Edition (USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s) (Model: 131-GT-E767)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series  (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 1000W Digital Storm Certified (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition Highly Recommended)
Expansion Bay: Dual Solid State Hard Drive Hot Swap Bay
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (80GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: X25-M MLC Edition) (Extreme Performance)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (64MB Cache) (Model: Black Edition WD1002FAEX)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: Blu-Ray Player/DVD Player (Play Blu-Ray and Play DVDs)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 1.5GB (Includes PhysX Technology)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional (PCI-Express Slot Based)
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 6: Sub-Zero LCS Dual Loop: CPU & Single Video Card
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: Noise Suppression Package Stage 1 (Optimized Airflow & Fan Speeds Only)
Boost Processor: FREE: Stage 1: Overclock the processor between 3.3GHz to 3.9GHz (Cooling Upgrade Recommended)
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
 
Best Regards, Perdika Big%20Smile
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 3:03pm
LOL no,no nasa work, there are others here with even more powerful pc then mine.

Just changed mobo and psu in 2 of my old dells, what a pain, and I had to pay more for everything, then a regular psu and mobo that would have been more powerful, thanks for nothing dell.

I like everything but you need to change the psu to a 1000w corsair, better reliability, longer warranty of its own (5 years). You sure you want to go with a 580? 570 is what you need for that res, but its upto you.

are you planing on adding another gpu to this build? if yes then you know how to add one to the loop?

My pleasure

Edited by DST4ME - 02 Jan 2011 at 3:06pm
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 10:36pm
Thanks again DST4ME.
 
I would like the possibility of adding an SLI card in the future - so I was thinking the 580 GTX based on that possibility.
 
Now do I now how to add another GPU with cooling - I am 100% sure that I can technically figure it out, however, as you might be thinking, my installation skill could be lacking.  Its not often we do things well the first time, a risk I guess I might take.
 
I hear you on the Corsair PSU, seen other comments favouring it - thanks for the advice.
 
Best Regards, Perdika Big%20Smile
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Jan 2011 at 11:00pm
you won't notice the difference between 570 sli and 580 sli, since they will both cover minimum fps on practically all games, with the exception of a few, so all the more reason to go with 570, at the end you gonna endup with a lot of power you will never notice, specially at 1900 x 1200.

to add another gpu, you will need to add the waterblock to the gpu, drain your gpu loop ,and then add the gpu to the loop.

keep in mind I'm thinking once you have the system you will see no need for the second card but if the monitor is gonna get bigger then you will.

My pleasure
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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 9:51am
Hmm, is there really a benefit as to LC'ing cards that have vapo-chills installed stock already though? I've a 570 myself and the card runs pretty cool compared to the 470/480s, idles around 40 and loads around 60 (and I have the card running "superclocked" speeds too..).

Adding a second GPU can be a bit tedious depending on how you want to play with your LC loop. You can do the simple option and just connect the two cards together in series, or do something fancier like linking the two cards in a way so that both cards get fresh, cool liquid instead of one card getting backwashed liquid from the first GPU. Either way, you need to invest a little bit in some LC hardware; the simplest just being a SLI/Crossfire tube and a few fittings (Somewhere under $50), up to who knows what lol depending on whether you want quick release fittings or something else.


Edited by ablahblah - 03 Jan 2011 at 9:54am
R4D4RPR00F
Core i7 920 @ 3.9Ghz
Asus Sabertooth X58
EVGA GTX 570
Mushkin 6GB 1414Mhz
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 10:05am
they don't have vapo-chills. lol don;t fall for the marketting BS. Same tech in the GTX 570-GTX 580 coolers, as all other air coolers out there.
I agree that the GTX 570 does run pretty cool, and quiet in stock form.
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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 12:15pm
it's all marketing? lol. well, what exactly makes the GF110s run cooler than the GF100s without sacrificing performance..?


Edited by ablahblah - 03 Jan 2011 at 12:19pm
R4D4RPR00F
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Asus Sabertooth X58
EVGA GTX 570
Mushkin 6GB 1414Mhz
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 12:22pm

nothing new, that is how all your modern air coolers work.

The GTX 500 series is more effiecient, in that is uses less power to make more FPS, so that will make less heat, then they added a more powerful cooler, so pretty easy to see why they run cooler


Edited by justin.kerr - 03 Jan 2011 at 12:24pm
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  Quote Perdika Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 7:35pm
Thanks to all for the video card discussions and the recent posts on cooling.
 
I am thinking either a single GTX570 or 580.  The reviews I have read do note improvements in temperature and noise compared to the GTX480.
 
Ablahblah (got to love that handle) mentioned that the GTX 570 (I think the same is true for the 580) has a relatively good cooling solution based on his experience.
 
Hmmm.. some of the discussion has made me take a 2nd look at liquid cooling. Looking at my configuration options, LC for the 1 GPU will cost me about $500 (say Stage 6 vs. Stage 3).  For this investment I am expecting a quiet machine and a trouble free GPU as it might relate to temperature issues. I am not deterred by the need for maintenance on an LC machine.  So I hope my quiet expectation would come true.  Justin, you mentioned that the 570 was relatively quiet - will LC make a significant noise difference in the Corsair800D case ?
 
As for adding a second card, would it be reasonable to expect that the radiator supplied for single GPU LC would also be able to handle a 2nd GPU - I guess the question is whether the radiator for either a single or dual GPU for Stage 6 cooling is the same ?  Naturally, the same question follows for the recirculation pump and reservoir ?
 
DST4ME mentioned that connecting a 2nd GPU to a LC system would require a decision for either parallel or series operation.  I would expect that in parallel operation both GPUs would operate at similar temps (assuming both a similar loads) and as implied, series operation would result in the 2nd GPU operating at a higher temperature. Though series operation would provide the benefit of greater liquid velocities if that aspect of heat transfer was limiting.
 
What is DS's configuration with 2 GPU's, series or parallel liquid cooling ?  And what is the practical experience with the operation ? 
 
Thanks for the enlightening discussions, Best Regards, Perdika. Big%20Smile
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 03 Jan 2011 at 8:01pm
go with a 570, the thing to keep in mind about the LC is that if the gpu goes bad, you have to remove the bad one from the loop and add the new one in, also if you wanted to go sli with LC, you have to add the second gpu in the loop, if you are ok with those then you are one step closer, next thing to look at is that if you want quiet LC system, then you need quiet fans (low cfm), to go with a low cfm, you need to go with a rad that performs well with it, in short you need ask for your own custom fans and rad, this will cost more money, if you are ok with that then ask for an xspc/feser/ rad with scythe gentle typhoon fans.

as for rad size, triple is best double is good for gpu/s.

when you run sli, on most mobs the both cards are right next to each other, making a heat sandwich, and the first card (top card) ends up being a bit hotter. some mobos will have a bit more space between cards and endup having better temps for the first card. At the end no matter what, air or LC, the temps are go be within acceptable ranges.

I think DS goes with a single rad for cpu and dual for gpus.


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